"acoustic" circuit bent instument!

[jamiewoody]

i have an idea...

velemin makes these kitshttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Velleman-Kit-Voice-Changer-Kit-MK171_W0QQitemZ220506707333QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Gadgets?hash=item3357395585 called "robot voice changer".

i played around with one a neighbor of mine built, and it is fun...kinda junk, as far as quality, but fun. basically, a voice modulator, which picks up breath and runs it into a component mic on a circuit, and adds different effects, such as weird modulation.

here is an idea...

take an instument, such as a 70s era table top air organ, or perhaps an accordian, and connect it to something like this, and create something.

the air from the organ could be channeled into the tubing, into the mic and perhaps weirdness can begin! ;-)

[Remork]

hadn't thought of that.. maybe a melodica for starters?
i had some decent results hooking a casio line out to the mic input of a similar voice changer. nasssssty drumsounds..

[jamiewoody]

cool! what brand of voice changer? the vellemen stuff is junk, really. i am thinking of getting one, since they are kinda cheap...maybe replacing sensor switches with toggles and stuff.

[Remork]

oh, but this one is definitely junk as well 
the cheapest japanese black blob stuff. no idea what brand it is, but it came in 2 parts: a ridiculously sad white plastic mask which sported the mic, and a loose module in which to plug it. the mini jack makes it real easy to try other stuff - guitar is no go, and it really works better on the casio than on voice as well.
its 3 modes are basically the same: a comb filter in different pitches. pretty boring, but hey, there's lots of flashing leds on the thing  i might actually try to use those as LFO replacements or something.
then again, it's one of those things that've been lying around opened here for ages, but i don't seem to get round to bending it - i just hook it up as is every now and then just for a giggle. maybe one day.

no experience with the velleman kit, but these are pretty good though:
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/surv/ck211.htm

i housed five of these in old computer speakers for a performance piece. with a decent speaker these things really come to life.. and they're pretty loud! pitch modes are slightly up (no buttons pushed), then up, down, and 1 mode which uses a pot for instant pitch changes. plus a robot voice which can be used with all three. haven't tried those with other inputs though, but my guess is a simple pot before the input might already do the trick.

[Remork]

just looking at the velleman kit - if you thought that was junk, the one i linked is just as much.  
(and i'm not even talking about the one i have at home, that's garbage compared to these two.)
if you swap out the flimsy switches and trimmers and give it a sturdy housing, at least it'll be useable.
too bad the velleman only has fixed pitch change- different chip than the linked one.

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/surv/ck211a.PDF in true japanese style, that manual is wrong. there's no such thing as a vibrato on that chip, even though the manual says so. i had to track the data sheet to find out what is actually happening, so i wouldn't yell 'Quality!' too soon.

[sk-1]

a voice modulator, which picks up breath and runs it into a component mic on a circuit, and adds different effects, such as weird modulation.

I thought the Velleman works simply by listening to sound and processing it in near-real time?  You must be getting it confused with a talk box, which is a similar idea but uses a long tube connected to a microphone.  A breath operated instrument is more like a harmonica, recorder or accordian.

Did the Velleman you played with have an air tube connected to it?

[jamiewoody]

dude, i am telling you, i have messed with one of these vellemen voice changers!

i looked out in the garage and found a plastic tube, and fit it over the mic element on the board. it worked like a charm!

i know it is different from a talk box or a vocoder.

so, if breath through a tube manipulates this voice changer, then perhaps a wind instrument (harmonica, melodica, air organ, etc) would do the same, if forced through a tube to the mic element?

this might be cool: get a tin can (like greenbeans comes in, etc), poke a hole in the closed end, feed a piece of tubing, air tight through it, feed to mic element.

mount a small computer fan into the other side. maybe the speed of the fan can be changed with a reistat? (or something for lower voltage, similar).

[noystoise]

i really doubt its pressure sensitive. that would be too sophisticated for such a cheap toy. i dont know if you guys had them in the uk, but sharper image used to sell a pretty sweet digital kazoo that changes your voice into a sax, clarinet, or tuba and could transpose. i have one that i have been meaning to bend. just been waiting for the right application.
btw, thats not me in the picture

[Remork]

these voice changers do just that: they change/manipulate the sound coming in from the mic.
pitch it, warble it, whatever. no more, no less.
that does not mean you can not run anything up close to the mic that makes a sound, so the mic can pick that sound up now does it? and if the mic can't come near any sound source, wind instrument or other, a piece of hose fitted over the mic sure can. that's all we're talking about - or i am, at least.

and yes, it works like a charm - i tried it myself. with a tube from an actual talkbox, incidentally.

have to add that i don't know whether fan speed changes would make a lot of difference, unless you can hear a pitch change. afaik the thing works on frequencies the mic picks up, not how much air pressure is on it, so i'd tend to agree with noystoise. although you might prove me wrong, jamiewoody, in which case i'd be happy to hear your results!

[jamiewoody]

i have no idea what i am doing, really. i either poke around and discover new sound, or dream about stuff. i am no engineer, but i imagine  that imagination is the first step in the process.

[sk-1]

btw, thats not me in the picture

Hahaha... classic!

But seriously though... that digital kazoo looks so cool!  Where can I get one?? 

[sk-1]

and yes, it works like a charm - i tried it myself. with a tube from an actual talkbox, incidentally.

Hmmm... I had a feeling it would work the same as a talk box, because it makes perfect sense.  But that Velleman kit doesn't come with a tube, which means this principle was discovered by sheer accident... which would also mean the Velleman can be turned into some kind of fake, budget talk box/vocoder.  But is it really a similar principle?  I would think that if the Velleman didn't work by air pressure alone, then it must be because the tube acts as a voice-thrower and 'throws' your voice into the tiny space around the mic.  I guess you could talk into a 50 metre long tube and your voice would still appear at the other end, vibrating only those air particles surrounding the end of the tube...

Anyway, nice discovery there

[jamiewoody]

the principal of the voice changer is different than talkbox and vocoder.

mic element mounted to circuit board. it is very sensitive, picks up  a lot in the room, which makes for feedback, etc. the tube seemed like the perfect idea. i think it is supposed to be there, not sure but it seemed plausable.

i wonder, instead of using a speaker in the circuit, use a line out into an amp, which should make it more sensitive. i think after some experimentation, it can be manipulated nicely.

[Remork]

i actually never mounted the mics on the PCB, out of necessity.
i just threw in some shielded wire and mounted the mic on the end with some heat shrink around it (see second pic.)
the transparent minitubes are heat shrink containing the mic elements. works fine.

by the way, a vocoder or talk box uses the SHAPE of your mouth as a sound transformer - you get sound shot into your mouth through the tube, and that gets picked up by a mic going to an amp/PA. by changing the shape of your mouth you get different overtones - you're not even supposed to make sound w/ your voice.
the voice changer totally works the other way around. apart from the both of them having a tube in this discussion, there's no resemblance whatsoever..

[SineHacker]

are you familiar with these guys, they make some pretty nice instruments using a combination of hacking, bending, acoustics and wanky enclosure design: http://folktek.com/

They occasionally do similar things to what you're describing jamiewoody - just thought it may be of interest